The Annals of Improbable Research once published a study by some university geeks who had access to equipment that measured smoothness to ridiculous levels, like micro-microns or whatever. They measured a pancake, then took a geophysical map of Kansas and compared the two. They scientifically proved that Kansas is in fact flatter than a pancake. Quite a bit flatter, too, I saw the scaled pictures of the two side by side.
I remember rolling down a hill as a toddler, and getting unpleasantly dizzy from it, too, even though the “hill” was probably fairly tame. This past summer we were at a park outside Berlin with some impressive earthwork slopes, and I suggested to my kids that they should try it, but neither one was willing to risk it. I guess this is something you have to try before you get to school age.
P.S. There’s a scene in “The Princess Bride” in which Wesley & Buttercup roll down a steep hill (just before they get to the Fire Swamp). I’m pretty sure that at the beginning, the steepness of the hill was artificially exaggerated by strategic camera placement (or tilting), but near the end of the shot, you can tell that both of the actors (presumably stunt doubles) are rolling fairly dangerously. (I just happened to watch the movie with my kids last weekend.)
We live in Ohio, which runs the gamut from the foothills of the Appalachians (and great skiing) to “God-awful flat” (the actual description we received from a co-worker before we moved to this side of the state). The closest we get is the Soap-Box Derby hill. There isn’t even anywhere decent to go sledding!
I’ve been in ‘discussion’ with flat-earthers for quite some time, and there is no way to convince them otherwise. But it’s fun to try! Thanks for the site.
“Florida takes the prize for the flattest state in the nation because the highest point in the state is only 345 feet above sea level. Then Illinois, North Dakota, Louisiana, Minnesota and Delaware follow. Kansas merely ranks seventh in flatness.
The findings appear in … the Geographical Review, a peer-reviewed journal published by the American Geographical Society.”
I’ve drive along some quite hilly country here in Florida, which surprised me.
And yet there’s this hill on 896 just as you enter Delaware from PA (well, MD, technically) that I can tell you about as I biked into Newark…
Even the flattest states have plenty of hills. I grew up in Nebraska. Most people who are just passing through the state drive across on Interstate 80 and complain how flat and boring it is. Of course it’s flat – that’s why they chose to build the highway there. I-80 follows the route of the Oregon and Mormon Trails. Those thoroughfares went through Nebraska following the Platte River, so travelers wouldn’t get lost, and also because it’s flat and fairly easy going for oxen pulling a wagon. Get off the beaten path, and there are all kinds of hills and bluffs. So a lot of the relative flatness is simply perception. That being said, I did get a bit of a chuckle from the cartoon, just because it would have earned a newly minted Weird tag from me.
I heard that the Flat Earth Society claims to have members all around the globe.
Good one – I’ll use it if that’s ok by you . . .
@zbicyclist: I think the AGS is using a different definition of flatness than the people in the study padraig mentioned. The AGS seems to be talking about the net difference in elevation between the lowest and highest points, while the other study is using a mathematical definition of flatness that’s more about how bumpy it is. A plane can lie on an incline, but still be quite flat.
@ DemetriosX – That was exactly the problem that was bothering me. I was having a hard time understanding how Delaware could be so low on that list of “flattest states”, since it has the second lowest “maximum elevation” of all 50 states, after Florida(*). Presumably this relates to the fact that both Delaware and Florida have ocean coastlines, so their “lowest points” start at zero above sea level. It is entirely possible that a state that is at a higher (average) elevation could have a lower “delta” elevation than either of these two.
P.S. (*) – As it happens, the highest spot in all of Delaware is just a few feet from the Pennsylvania border.
“As it happens, the highest spot in all of Delaware is just a few feet from the Pennsylvania border”
Yeah, my point! I had to ride my bike up and down that hill!
The roughly spherical Earth is, of course, not a new concept at all. The Greeks were aware of it for a long time. Eratosthenes made a pretty accurate calculation based on the angle of the Sun at different locations.
No amount of evidence will convince the crazy. The fact that ships have sailed all over the planet and never found the edge ought to be enough.
“The fact that ships have sailed all over the planet and never found the edge ought to be enough.”
As you write: “No amount of evidence will convince the crazy.” Anything you bring up becomes explainable as part of the conspiracy, so you go round and round. My final answer always is: WHAT DOES IT MATTER ANYWAY??? Would our lives be any different if the world were flat or round, or even square?
Andrea: As far as conspiracy theories go, it’s true that Flat Earthism doesn’t seem like a big deal. Not that many people believe it, and we’re not basing any policies in it. There are more important problems with scientific literacy and understanding to tackle.
OTOH, if you believe the earth is flat you have to have a real inability to accurately weight evidence, or believe in a giant worldwide conspiracy so that you can reject any evidence that doesn’t match your preconceptions. From that perspective, it’s not that someone’s belief in Flat Earthism itself is so bad, but that it’s a symptom of a deeper problem that almost certainly carries over into other beliefs.
The Flat Earthers aren’t even the crazy ones. That would be the HOLLOW Earthers.
WW, thanks for keeping me from having to find that comic to post here.
WW: I agree; along with Flat Earthism is a disbelief in NASA and our trips to the moon (imagine hos many people would have to keep quite about this, for YEARS!), three million fraudulent votes in the 2016 Presidential election, gravity is not a ‘real’ thing, and so on. So yes, you’re right . . . this belief indicates a lack of critical thinking skills. Which has been the aim of NCLB since its inception. Our current political strife is the result. (Puts on flame-proof suit.) https://www.gocomics.com/mo/2018/09/24
There just aren’t as many of ’em. AND the Flat Earthers also insist there is a dome over this flat Earth, a la ‘The Truman Show’.
I wonder how many people don’t believe that each element can emit radiation only at certain specific discrete frequencies, and the frequencies don’t change with temperature. Color television would not work if that were not true.
“each element can emit radiation only at certain specific discrete frequencies, and the frequencies don’t change with temperature”
Doesn’t that conflict with the idea of black-body radiation if you make the box (with the hole in it) out of one element (such as iron)? (Obviously in a vacuum so there’s no pesky gasses to interfere.)
If you want to respond, I’d accept a URL rather than bore everyone else here.
@ Arthur – The fundamental difference is that “blackbody” radiation is produced by the random movements of a huge number of hot atoms and molecules, whereas LED emission is generated by a large number of electrons undergoing the same orbital transition. The “intensity versus frequency” graph shows a gentle curve for a blackbody, whereas LEDs (and old style neon tubes) produce a spike at each of the permissible transition levels.
New Orleans has Monkey Hill, which started as a dump site for fill dirt, and when children started playing on it, and rolling down, the legend became that it was built specifically so that the children could know the experience of of hill.
Comics I Don't Understand 
The Annals of Improbable Research once published a study by some university geeks who had access to equipment that measured smoothness to ridiculous levels, like micro-microns or whatever. They measured a pancake, then took a geophysical map of Kansas and compared the two. They scientifically proved that Kansas is in fact flatter than a pancake. Quite a bit flatter, too, I saw the scaled pictures of the two side by side.
Found the “study”: https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html
Don’t let the ‘Flat-Earthers’ see this . . . ‘-)
I remember rolling down a hill as a toddler, and getting unpleasantly dizzy from it, too, even though the “hill” was probably fairly tame. This past summer we were at a park outside Berlin with some impressive earthwork slopes, and I suggested to my kids that they should try it, but neither one was willing to risk it. I guess this is something you have to try before you get to school age.
P.S. There’s a scene in “The Princess Bride” in which Wesley & Buttercup roll down a steep hill (just before they get to the Fire Swamp). I’m pretty sure that at the beginning, the steepness of the hill was artificially exaggerated by strategic camera placement (or tilting), but near the end of the shot, you can tell that both of the actors (presumably stunt doubles) are rolling fairly dangerously. (I just happened to watch the movie with my kids last weekend.)
We live in Ohio, which runs the gamut from the foothills of the Appalachians (and great skiing) to “God-awful flat” (the actual description we received from a co-worker before we moved to this side of the state). The closest we get is the Soap-Box Derby hill. There isn’t even anywhere decent to go sledding!
Andrea – a photographer went the other way.
I’ve been in ‘discussion’ with flat-earthers for quite some time, and there is no way to convince them otherwise. But it’s fun to try! Thanks for the site.
Padraig, thanks for the study!
padraig: Kansas isn’t even the flattest state. https://news.ku.edu/2014/02/06/research-if-you-think-kansas-flattest-us-state-youre-plain-wrong
“Florida takes the prize for the flattest state in the nation because the highest point in the state is only 345 feet above sea level. Then Illinois, North Dakota, Louisiana, Minnesota and Delaware follow. Kansas merely ranks seventh in flatness.
The findings appear in … the Geographical Review, a peer-reviewed journal published by the American Geographical Society.”
I’ve drive along some quite hilly country here in Florida, which surprised me.
And yet there’s this hill on 896 just as you enter Delaware from PA (well, MD, technically) that I can tell you about as I biked into Newark…
Even the flattest states have plenty of hills. I grew up in Nebraska. Most people who are just passing through the state drive across on Interstate 80 and complain how flat and boring it is. Of course it’s flat – that’s why they chose to build the highway there. I-80 follows the route of the Oregon and Mormon Trails. Those thoroughfares went through Nebraska following the Platte River, so travelers wouldn’t get lost, and also because it’s flat and fairly easy going for oxen pulling a wagon. Get off the beaten path, and there are all kinds of hills and bluffs. So a lot of the relative flatness is simply perception. That being said, I did get a bit of a chuckle from the cartoon, just because it would have earned a newly minted Weird tag from me.
I heard that the Flat Earth Society claims to have members all around the globe.
Good one – I’ll use it if that’s ok by you . . .
@zbicyclist: I think the AGS is using a different definition of flatness than the people in the study padraig mentioned. The AGS seems to be talking about the net difference in elevation between the lowest and highest points, while the other study is using a mathematical definition of flatness that’s more about how bumpy it is. A plane can lie on an incline, but still be quite flat.
@ DemetriosX – That was exactly the problem that was bothering me. I was having a hard time understanding how Delaware could be so low on that list of “flattest states”, since it has the second lowest “maximum elevation” of all 50 states, after Florida(*). Presumably this relates to the fact that both Delaware and Florida have ocean coastlines, so their “lowest points” start at zero above sea level. It is entirely possible that a state that is at a higher (average) elevation could have a lower “delta” elevation than either of these two.
P.S. (*) – As it happens, the highest spot in all of Delaware is just a few feet from the Pennsylvania border.
“As it happens, the highest spot in all of Delaware is just a few feet from the Pennsylvania border”
Yeah, my point! I had to ride my bike up and down that hill!
The roughly spherical Earth is, of course, not a new concept at all. The Greeks were aware of it for a long time. Eratosthenes made a pretty accurate calculation based on the angle of the Sun at different locations.
No amount of evidence will convince the crazy. The fact that ships have sailed all over the planet and never found the edge ought to be enough.
“The fact that ships have sailed all over the planet and never found the edge ought to be enough.”
As you write: “No amount of evidence will convince the crazy.” Anything you bring up becomes explainable as part of the conspiracy, so you go round and round. My final answer always is: WHAT DOES IT MATTER ANYWAY??? Would our lives be any different if the world were flat or round, or even square?
Andrea: As far as conspiracy theories go, it’s true that Flat Earthism doesn’t seem like a big deal. Not that many people believe it, and we’re not basing any policies in it. There are more important problems with scientific literacy and understanding to tackle.
OTOH, if you believe the earth is flat you have to have a real inability to accurately weight evidence, or believe in a giant worldwide conspiracy so that you can reject any evidence that doesn’t match your preconceptions. From that perspective, it’s not that someone’s belief in Flat Earthism itself is so bad, but that it’s a symptom of a deeper problem that almost certainly carries over into other beliefs.
The Flat Earthers aren’t even the crazy ones. That would be the HOLLOW Earthers.
WW, thanks for keeping me from having to find that comic to post here.
WW: I agree; along with Flat Earthism is a disbelief in NASA and our trips to the moon (imagine hos many people would have to keep quite about this, for YEARS!), three million fraudulent votes in the 2016 Presidential election, gravity is not a ‘real’ thing, and so on. So yes, you’re right . . . this belief indicates a lack of critical thinking skills. Which has been the aim of NCLB since its inception. Our current political strife is the result. (Puts on flame-proof suit.)
https://www.gocomics.com/mo/2018/09/24
There just aren’t as many of ’em. AND the Flat Earthers also insist there is a dome over this flat Earth, a la ‘The Truman Show’.
I wonder how many people don’t believe that each element can emit radiation only at certain specific discrete frequencies, and the frequencies don’t change with temperature. Color television would not work if that were not true.
“each element can emit radiation only at certain specific discrete frequencies, and the frequencies don’t change with temperature”
Doesn’t that conflict with the idea of black-body radiation if you make the box (with the hole in it) out of one element (such as iron)? (Obviously in a vacuum so there’s no pesky gasses to interfere.)
If you want to respond, I’d accept a URL rather than bore everyone else here.
@ Arthur – The fundamental difference is that “blackbody” radiation is produced by the random movements of a huge number of hot atoms and molecules, whereas LED emission is generated by a large number of electrons undergoing the same orbital transition. The “intensity versus frequency” graph shows a gentle curve for a blackbody, whereas LEDs (and old style neon tubes) produce a spike at each of the permissible transition levels.
New Orleans has Monkey Hill, which started as a dump site for fill dirt, and when children started playing on it, and rolling down, the legend became that it was built specifically so that the children could know the experience of of hill.
https://www.nola.com/300/2017/07/monkey_hill_new_orleans_histor.html