Boise Ed’s theory works, but Bill’s idea is funnier.
Yes, it’s Mr. Clean. Bald, white eyebrows, single earring.
Thinking his drink mate is supposed to be Mr. Brawny (paper towels) as well. That pitcher of beer in his hand is his own “quicker picker upper”.
He is, although it wouldn’t have occurred to me if you hadn’t mentioned it.
“Quicker picker upper” is Bounty, not Brawny.
Artist went a little heavy on the caterpillar eyebrows.
The Brawny guy was more recognizable when he had a mustache.
It’s not only Mr Clean, it’s a remarkably clear likeness, given the extremely simple art style.
So what was the original idea behind Mr. Clean, before he was simply the cultural icon Mr. Clean? Was he supposed to be vaguely arabic / djinn like? That would explain the ear-ring and baldness (aren’t djinns bald?), and then they made him white because white is clean, and also, you don’t want American housewives consorting with some swarthy foreigner in the bathroom…
I’m of course simply discounting the possibility that he is wholly original created out of whole cloth, because crassly commercial art like this is always derivative. It gets interesting when the commercial art outlives its origins, so you come to believe the commercial derivative is the original. I’m too young, and didn’t watch enough late night movies, that I had to work hard to realize that Peter Lorre is not just some freaky Booberry sounding guy… Yogi Bear is Yogi Bear, and Art Carney really should stop stealing his schtick. Every time I watch the Marx Brothers, I have a freaky frisson that they seem so familiar to me, even though it may be the very first time I’m seeing a particular movie — I blame M*A*S*H in particular for that….
“you come to believe the commercial derivative is the original. ”
A lot of parody finds its way into children’s entertainment. And children’s entertainment has a way of lasting longer than anyone expects. (Scooby Doo is almost as old as I am). Lots and lots of people, I can only assume, got the Looney Tunes cartoons as children, and they frequently parodied the cultural influencers of their day… many of which are… shall we say, substantially less relevant today.
There’s also the story about the innocent who saw a production of HAMLET for the first time, and complained that the author sjust swiped a lot of famous sayings and strung them together.
A *lot* of what I *know* about pop culture (and even culture culture) of the 1950s and on comes from reading parodies of it, mostly from MAD magazine. Certainly has enabled me to “get” countless jokes about best sellers I’ve never read and movies and TV shows I’ve never seen (and often never wanted to).
Sesame Street would be another example of parodies supplanting originals, at least for the under-five crowd — I didn’t realize that The Count was based on anything in particular, and there was also a now-discontinued Muppet named “Sherlock Hemlock” whom I also didn’t know about.
And it’s been a constant feature of the show since at least the mid-to-late Seventies when I started watching, and I’d guess it had been like that from the start. More than a few existed only for a short period of time, as a particular person was in the public consciousness only relatively briefly (H. Ross Parrot and Placido Flamingo come to mind); others, such as The Count, have entirely transcended their parodic beginnings.
(And then there are the music parodies — “C Drives Me Crazy” by the Fine Young Camels; “Rebel L” by Billy Idle; “Letter B” by The Beetles…)
The fact that Sesame Street is filled with parodies helps keep the parents who watch with their kids entertained (instead of insane). I certainly appreciated it when mine were little. And the musical guests were great, too. I loved when R.E.M. came on and sang Shiny Happy Monsters. (I guess that tells you something about the age of my kids, huh?) Some other kids shows were eventually removed from our viewing list because they started to make me crazy with either boring repetition or earworms that played in my head all night long.
And while I never knew he was based on Bela Legosi’s version specifically, I guess I had always assumed that Count von Count was a Dracula parody. After all, he’s clearly a vampire, and everyone knows that vamps talk like that, right? “I vant to suck your blood!”
Let’s not forget that the classical music world has embraced the fact that most people (adults too) these days are most familiar with classical music through kids’ cartoons. There are two variants of the “live orchestral accompaniment to Bugs Bunny cartoons” (despite the name I don’t think he’s in all of them) genre, plus the local theatre hosts the same for classic movies. (For kids, there’s the Classical Kids series that I grew up with, and now Beethoven’s Wig). But the originals are old enough that you’d at least seem them elsewhere (Drink milk…). A lot of the parodies are the only version left now.
@larK: The original Mr. Clean was supposed to be a sailor, though he also had certain djinn-like properties. The original product was actually developed to clean grime on ships, but had moved to a household product by the time the mascot was developed.
True, Kilby.
larK, I seem to recall early Mr. Clean ads where he emerged in a puff of smoke from an Aladdin’s lamp. … But (of course) YouTube has the original Mr. Clean commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Q93j7xv90), but there’s no genie lamp there.
Just saying… if I were a vampire, I’m not sure I’d be this up-front about it. “Suck your blood? Ewww, that’s gross. Oh, come over here for a moment, it looks like you have some dirt on your neck…”
” if I were a vampire, I’m not sure I’d be thisup-front about it.”
Not sure how we made a sump to vampires, but sure, I’ll follow along.
I see one neck that needs to be bitten. No, I see one, two necks that need to be bitten. No, I see one, two, three necks that need to be bitten. Ah, ah, ah. This lesson has been brought to you by the number 3 and the blood type B-positive.
Is how I’d handle it if I were a vampire.
IarK – Djinn in legend or the original versions of the Thousand and One Night are no more or less likely to be bald than the humans they live near. Genies in pop culture are…no more or less likely to be bald than humans cast/drawn by the same people. >_>
Also, ‘djinn’ is the plural, so ‘djinns’ is redundant. The singular is ‘djinni’, thus ‘genie’.
Yeah, so that’s probably the circular, derivative-replacing-the-origin thing I was talking about, coming home to roost in me: I remember vaguely like Boise Ed Mr. Clean appearing in a puff of smoke from an Aladdin lamp type thing, so, besides Jeannie from I dream of Jeannie, he must have become my archetypal genie — he’s bald, so genies must be bald.
Is it ironic? Or just sad?
Then there was Hemlock Holmes in the UPA Dick Tracy cartoons. It was from his voice that Cary Grant adopted his vocal mannerisms. Or so it seemed.
Genies in pop culture are…no more or less likely to be bald than humans cast/drawn by the same people.
That’s reflected in traditional song too — “I dream of a Genie with the light brown hair.”
And yet Barbara Eden was a blonde…
Mitch4, have you heard the Spike Jones parody version from the ’40s “I Dream of Brownie with the Light Blue Jeans.” ? :-)
Incidentally, the original, “Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair” was written by Stephen Foster in the 1850s. I lose track of the “traditional” songs he’d actually written.
…and while were discussing genies, if you happen to remember the film (and book) “Chitty Chitty Bang Bang” the titular automobile wears registration plates reading GEN 11…reflecting the car’s magical nature. That particular registration was about as close to “genie” as one could get officially in the UK.
“And yet Barbara Eden was a blonde…”
And also had dark black hair in some episodes.
Grawlix, thanks for the Spike Jones tip, I’ll want to check it out!
It happens I do know the original “Jeannie” was written by Stephen Foster, but wrote “traditional” anyway. When I was growing up in Miami, the Florida state song was Foster’s “Old Folks at Home” (often identified by its first line “Way down upon the Swanee [or Suwannee] River”). A quick wikipedia visit confirms that it still is, but at least has had a touch-up to the wording.
I’d be interested to know if other Mahler fans hear a short phrase resembling the tune of “Jeannie” in the posthorn solo from the 3rd Symphony. In this clip it comes at 1:02 and lasts just a few seconds. https://youtu.be/tDRkcnPfSqM
In at least one Bugs Bunny cartoon, Bugs sings “I dream of Jeannie, She’s a light brown hare. . .” But he doesn’t go beyond those first two lines.
Back in the early 60s I saw somewhere (possibly in HELP! magazine) a reprint from a college humor magazine which ran an impressive number of bad puns on the nonsense line “See the merino standing there, with his long shaggy hair.” My favorite depicted a bearded farmer with a pitchfork (a long shaggy hayer).
“I’d be interested to know if other Mahler fans hear a short phrase resembling the tune of “Jeannie” in the posthorn solo from the 3rd Symphony.”
I’d never noticed it. Now I probably never won’t.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard it with a real posthorn.
Jajizi, I used to have a bookmark to a trumpeters’ blog with pages for different topics including how to play / anecdotes about particular pieces. The thread for the Mahler 3 posthorn solo had interesting comments on just what instrument, in what configuration (e.g. mute), had been used by various trumpeters in concert or in particular recordings.
And now … jump to the finale and tell me if you hear “I’ll be seeing you in all the old familiar places”!
(Bill, thanks for pulling that out of moderation.)
Oh, wait, I see the problem with this one: the URL.
Yeah, it has a long url and a query in it … sorry!
I think probably the part of the URL that started with “tr” and ended with “ump”.
“I’ll be seeing you”?
I’ll have to say, “maybe”. I had to listen to Billie Holiday on YouTube to remind myself how the tune sounds.
I don’t know if that’s really Maestro Barenboim, but many years ago, for a while, I subscribed to an email list about Mahler. I’m not a musician, so most of the discussion was over my head. Not quite as famous, but one semi-regular contributor on that list — I had no reason to doubt it was really him — was Benjamin Zander.
To come full circle in this thread, in the trumpeters’ blog, another contributor posted as “MrClean”.
I haven’t investigated this thoroughly, but I have read that in the ancient legends, vampires and some other supernatural creatures have “arithmomania” or a compulsion to count things. If you are being chased by a vampire and you happen to have some rice, toss it all behind you and the vampire will be compelled to stop and count all the grains. So that is why Count von Count loves to count things.
Mitch4, have you ever noticed the resemblance between the posthorn solo and the “Presentation of the Rose” in Strauss’ Rosenkavalier? Richard Strauss is known to have been present at the premiere of Mahler’s third symphony.
“Sesame Street would be another example of parodies supplanting originals… (And then there are the music parodies — “C Drives Me Crazy” by the Fine Young Camels; “Rebel L” by Billy Idle; “Letter B” by The Beetles…)”
When I was in college, a fellow dorm-mate told me that he had first heard “Letter B” on Sesame Street, then years later heard “Let Her Be” by the Beatles.
The first time he heard the Beatles’ version, he thought that they “…had totally ripped it off from Sesame Street!”
Mark in Boston, thanks for the “tune resemblance” comment, but I have to admit I have something of a blind spot for R. Strauss — maybe from youthful overexposure to Till Eulenspiegel. But your comment is now the third prompt in a short time suggesting I would enjoy more acquaintance with Rosenkavalier.
(And thanks for that bloopers link! I’ve just started browsing it. Is the moderation filter now allowing mention of the instrument in question?)
Jajizi, yes I do kind of know who Benjamin Zander is. Just recently I’ve seen him in a series of YouTube videos called something about “Interpretation”. I was sort of disappointed in the ones I saw, especially an initially very interesting one that was like a conducting masterclass, on the opening of Beethoven’s Fifth. I thought he put too much of himself in it, and didn’t give the student enough of a chance to try his own choices. Other lectures and demos of his have been also interesting yet a little too personal or overwrought, I thought.
But prior to this, there was an audio-only feature I was very fond of — one “side” was a straight performance, Zander conducting a big piece (maybe even the selfsame Mahler 3!), and the other “side” alternating excerpts from that performance with Zander giving commentary. I enjoyed that a lot; but would have to face the nightmare of my iTunes-on-Windows installation to get back to it.
Zander teaching conducting, beethoven 5
this was the one I expressed mixed feelings about
Here the one I am in effect contrasting it to
The Masterclass Media Foundation
Haitink On Brahms 3
This is a short 6-min excerpt, they have a full DVD of this
In case anybody still hasn’t had their fill, here are pictures of instrumentalists standing in a row and playing their horn-which-must-not-be-named.
Here mostly (French) Horns:
“Freedom” horns, you mean…
Wendy – Sesame Street actually aimed some of its humor at older children so that they would watch TV with their younger siblings and make it more “hip” to the younger children. Per the exhibition for the 10 year anniversary of the show at the Smithsonian – I liked the idea and it stuck me.
Comics I Don't Understand 
Ya seen one skinhead, ya seen ’em all.
Boise Ed’s theory works, but Bill’s idea is funnier.
Yes, it’s Mr. Clean. Bald, white eyebrows, single earring.
Thinking his drink mate is supposed to be Mr. Brawny (paper towels) as well. That pitcher of beer in his hand is his own “quicker picker upper”.
He is, although it wouldn’t have occurred to me if you hadn’t mentioned it.
“Quicker picker upper” is Bounty, not Brawny.
Artist went a little heavy on the caterpillar eyebrows.
The Brawny guy was more recognizable when he had a mustache.
It’s not only Mr Clean, it’s a remarkably clear likeness, given the extremely simple art style.
So what was the original idea behind Mr. Clean, before he was simply the cultural icon Mr. Clean? Was he supposed to be vaguely arabic / djinn like? That would explain the ear-ring and baldness (aren’t djinns bald?), and then they made him white because white is clean, and also, you don’t want American housewives consorting with some swarthy foreigner in the bathroom…
I’m of course simply discounting the possibility that he is wholly original created out of whole cloth, because crassly commercial art like this is always derivative. It gets interesting when the commercial art outlives its origins, so you come to believe the commercial derivative is the original. I’m too young, and didn’t watch enough late night movies, that I had to work hard to realize that Peter Lorre is not just some freaky Booberry sounding guy… Yogi Bear is Yogi Bear, and Art Carney really should stop stealing his schtick. Every time I watch the Marx Brothers, I have a freaky frisson that they seem so familiar to me, even though it may be the very first time I’m seeing a particular movie — I blame M*A*S*H in particular for that….
“you come to believe the commercial derivative is the original. ”
A lot of parody finds its way into children’s entertainment. And children’s entertainment has a way of lasting longer than anyone expects. (Scooby Doo is almost as old as I am). Lots and lots of people, I can only assume, got the Looney Tunes cartoons as children, and they frequently parodied the cultural influencers of their day… many of which are… shall we say, substantially less relevant today.
There’s also the story about the innocent who saw a production of HAMLET for the first time, and complained that the author sjust swiped a lot of famous sayings and strung them together.
A *lot* of what I *know* about pop culture (and even culture culture) of the 1950s and on comes from reading parodies of it, mostly from MAD magazine. Certainly has enabled me to “get” countless jokes about best sellers I’ve never read and movies and TV shows I’ve never seen (and often never wanted to).
Sesame Street would be another example of parodies supplanting originals, at least for the under-five crowd — I didn’t realize that The Count was based on anything in particular, and there was also a now-discontinued Muppet named “Sherlock Hemlock” whom I also didn’t know about.
And it’s been a constant feature of the show since at least the mid-to-late Seventies when I started watching, and I’d guess it had been like that from the start. More than a few existed only for a short period of time, as a particular person was in the public consciousness only relatively briefly (H. Ross Parrot and Placido Flamingo come to mind); others, such as The Count, have entirely transcended their parodic beginnings.
(And then there are the music parodies — “C Drives Me Crazy” by the Fine Young Camels; “Rebel L” by Billy Idle; “Letter B” by The Beetles…)
The fact that Sesame Street is filled with parodies helps keep the parents who watch with their kids entertained (instead of insane). I certainly appreciated it when mine were little. And the musical guests were great, too. I loved when R.E.M. came on and sang Shiny Happy Monsters. (I guess that tells you something about the age of my kids, huh?) Some other kids shows were eventually removed from our viewing list because they started to make me crazy with either boring repetition or earworms that played in my head all night long.
And while I never knew he was based on Bela Legosi’s version specifically, I guess I had always assumed that Count von Count was a Dracula parody. After all, he’s clearly a vampire, and everyone knows that vamps talk like that, right? “I vant to suck your blood!”
Let’s not forget that the classical music world has embraced the fact that most people (adults too) these days are most familiar with classical music through kids’ cartoons. There are two variants of the “live orchestral accompaniment to Bugs Bunny cartoons” (despite the name I don’t think he’s in all of them) genre, plus the local theatre hosts the same for classic movies. (For kids, there’s the Classical Kids series that I grew up with, and now Beethoven’s Wig). But the originals are old enough that you’d at least seem them elsewhere (Drink milk…). A lot of the parodies are the only version left now.
@larK: The original Mr. Clean was supposed to be a sailor, though he also had certain djinn-like properties. The original product was actually developed to clean grime on ships, but had moved to a household product by the time the mascot was developed.
True, Kilby.
larK, I seem to recall early Mr. Clean ads where he emerged in a puff of smoke from an Aladdin’s lamp. … But (of course) YouTube has the original Mr. Clean commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Q93j7xv90), but there’s no genie lamp there.
Just saying… if I were a vampire, I’m not sure I’d be this up-front about it. “Suck your blood? Ewww, that’s gross. Oh, come over here for a moment, it looks like you have some dirt on your neck…”
” if I were a vampire, I’m not sure I’d be thisup-front about it.”
Not sure how we made a sump to vampires, but sure, I’ll follow along.
I see one neck that needs to be bitten. No, I see one, two necks that need to be bitten. No, I see one, two, three necks that need to be bitten. Ah, ah, ah. This lesson has been brought to you by the number 3 and the blood type B-positive.
Is how I’d handle it if I were a vampire.
IarK – Djinn in legend or the original versions of the Thousand and One Night are no more or less likely to be bald than the humans they live near. Genies in pop culture are…no more or less likely to be bald than humans cast/drawn by the same people. >_>
Also, ‘djinn’ is the plural, so ‘djinns’ is redundant. The singular is ‘djinni’, thus ‘genie’.
Yeah, so that’s probably the circular, derivative-replacing-the-origin thing I was talking about, coming home to roost in me: I remember vaguely like Boise Ed Mr. Clean appearing in a puff of smoke from an Aladdin lamp type thing, so, besides Jeannie from I dream of Jeannie, he must have become my archetypal genie — he’s bald, so genies must be bald.
Is it ironic? Or just sad?
Then there was Hemlock Holmes in the UPA Dick Tracy cartoons. It was from his voice that Cary Grant adopted his vocal mannerisms. Or so it seemed.
Genies in pop culture are…no more or less likely to be bald than humans cast/drawn by the same people.
That’s reflected in traditional song too — “I dream of a Genie with the light brown hair.”
And yet Barbara Eden was a blonde…
Mitch4, have you heard the Spike Jones parody version from the ’40s “I Dream of Brownie with the Light Blue Jeans.” ? :-)
Incidentally, the original, “Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair” was written by Stephen Foster in the 1850s. I lose track of the “traditional” songs he’d actually written.
…and while were discussing genies, if you happen to remember the film (and book) “Chitty Chitty Bang Bang” the titular automobile wears registration plates reading GEN 11…reflecting the car’s magical nature. That particular registration was about as close to “genie” as one could get officially in the UK.
“And yet Barbara Eden was a blonde…”
And also had dark black hair in some episodes.
Grawlix, thanks for the Spike Jones tip, I’ll want to check it out!
It happens I do know the original “Jeannie” was written by Stephen Foster, but wrote “traditional” anyway. When I was growing up in Miami, the Florida state song was Foster’s “Old Folks at Home” (often identified by its first line “Way down upon the Swanee [or Suwannee] River”). A quick wikipedia visit confirms that it still is, but at least has had a touch-up to the wording.
I’d be interested to know if other Mahler fans hear a short phrase resembling the tune of “Jeannie” in the posthorn solo from the 3rd Symphony. In this clip it comes at 1:02 and lasts just a few seconds. https://youtu.be/tDRkcnPfSqM
In at least one Bugs Bunny cartoon, Bugs sings “I dream of Jeannie, She’s a light brown hare. . .” But he doesn’t go beyond those first two lines.
Back in the early 60s I saw somewhere (possibly in HELP! magazine) a reprint from a college humor magazine which ran an impressive number of bad puns on the nonsense line “See the merino standing there, with his long shaggy hair.” My favorite depicted a bearded farmer with a pitchfork (a long shaggy hayer).
“I’d be interested to know if other Mahler fans hear a short phrase resembling the tune of “Jeannie” in the posthorn solo from the 3rd Symphony.”
I’d never noticed it. Now I probably never won’t.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard it with a real posthorn.
Jajizi, I used to have a bookmark to a trumpeters’ blog with pages for different topics including how to play / anecdotes about particular pieces. The thread for the Mahler 3 posthorn solo had interesting comments on just what instrument, in what configuration (e.g. mute), had been used by various trumpeters in concert or in particular recordings.
And now … jump to the finale and tell me if you hear “I’ll be seeing you in all the old familiar places”!
(Bill, thanks for pulling that out of moderation.)
I found the blog I remember, though this was a thread on a slightly different topic. (There is a comment from someone using the name Daniel Barenboim. I wonder.) It’s https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1219942
And here we go again.
Why does WordPress not like you today?
Oh, wait, I see the problem with this one: the URL.
Yeah, it has a long url and a query in it … sorry!
I think probably the part of the URL that started with “tr” and ended with “ump”.
“I’ll be seeing you”?
I’ll have to say, “maybe”. I had to listen to Billie Holiday on YouTube to remind myself how the tune sounds.
I don’t know if that’s really Maestro Barenboim, but many years ago, for a while, I subscribed to an email list about Mahler. I’m not a musician, so most of the discussion was over my head. Not quite as famous, but one semi-regular contributor on that list — I had no reason to doubt it was really him — was Benjamin Zander.
To come full circle in this thread, in the trumpeters’ blog, another contributor posted as “MrClean”.
I haven’t investigated this thoroughly, but I have read that in the ancient legends, vampires and some other supernatural creatures have “arithmomania” or a compulsion to count things. If you are being chased by a vampire and you happen to have some rice, toss it all behind you and the vampire will be compelled to stop and count all the grains. So that is why Count von Count loves to count things.
Mitch4, have you ever noticed the resemblance between the posthorn solo and the “Presentation of the Rose” in Strauss’ Rosenkavalier? Richard Strauss is known to have been present at the premiere of Mahler’s third symphony.
Mitch4, you probably also have a bookmark for this (very old) collection of trumpet bloopers: http://www.billandellie.com/sounds/TrumpetBloopers.asp
ianosmond wrote:
“Sesame Street would be another example of parodies supplanting originals… (And then there are the music parodies — “C Drives Me Crazy” by the Fine Young Camels; “Rebel L” by Billy Idle; “Letter B” by The Beetles…)”
When I was in college, a fellow dorm-mate told me that he had first heard “Letter B” on Sesame Street, then years later heard “Let Her Be” by the Beatles.
The first time he heard the Beatles’ version, he thought that they “…had totally ripped it off from Sesame Street!”
Mark in Boston, thanks for the “tune resemblance” comment, but I have to admit I have something of a blind spot for R. Strauss — maybe from youthful overexposure to Till Eulenspiegel. But your comment is now the third prompt in a short time suggesting I would enjoy more acquaintance with Rosenkavalier.
(And thanks for that bloopers link! I’ve just started browsing it. Is the moderation filter now allowing mention of the instrument in question?)
Jajizi, yes I do kind of know who Benjamin Zander is. Just recently I’ve seen him in a series of YouTube videos called something about “Interpretation”. I was sort of disappointed in the ones I saw, especially an initially very interesting one that was like a conducting masterclass, on the opening of Beethoven’s Fifth. I thought he put too much of himself in it, and didn’t give the student enough of a chance to try his own choices. Other lectures and demos of his have been also interesting yet a little too personal or overwrought, I thought.
But prior to this, there was an audio-only feature I was very fond of — one “side” was a straight performance, Zander conducting a big piece (maybe even the selfsame Mahler 3!), and the other “side” alternating excerpts from that performance with Zander giving commentary. I enjoyed that a lot; but would have to face the nightmare of my iTunes-on-Windows installation to get back to it.
Zander teaching conducting, beethoven 5
this was the one I expressed mixed feelings about
Here the one I am in effect contrasting it to
The Masterclass Media Foundation
Haitink On Brahms 3
This is a short 6-min excerpt, they have a full DVD of this
In case anybody still hasn’t had their fill, here are pictures of instrumentalists standing in a row and playing their horn-which-must-not-be-named.
Here mostly (French) Horns:
“Freedom” horns, you mean…
Wendy – Sesame Street actually aimed some of its humor at older children so that they would watch TV with their younger siblings and make it more “hip” to the younger children. Per the exhibition for the 10 year anniversary of the show at the Smithsonian – I liked the idea and it stuck me.