These are, I believe, called GIMME CAPS and are used to advertise one’s political views, sports team preference, etc., etc. So . . . a business cap would be used to advertise MAKING MONEY!! Or something like that.
“My haberdasher” !
Maybe its just the juxtaposition of a bizspeak sounding word with a word like haberdasher.
I just looked at the FAQ for the GoComics comment section. They have a rule against going off-topic.
Can anybody IMAGINE that sort of rule here?
As someone wrote somewhere, sometime: “Come for the comics, stay for the comments.” I think that sums it all up . . .
I think the joke is how what is considered appropriate attire is changing, largely driven by the youngsters.
They wear baseball caps all over, even in nice restaurants. The only acceptable place to wear a baseball cap is on the baseball field. Or, if turned backward, when you are sniping enemy soldiers.
Surprisingly, this fellow is wearing a necktie. I attended an event just a couple of days ago and there were a goodly number of men wearing suits without ties. Many of my younger friends (even well into their 30s) are vehement that a tie is not required with a suit. I disagree. The only time it is acceptable to appear in a suit without a tie is when you have been kidnapped and your hands were tied together with the tie and you have been able to escape by rubbing the tie on a jagged rock.
I am also distressed by the disturbing trend of men wearing brown shoes with a blue suit. Not oxblood, which is acceptable, but brown!
So, this young man thinks he looks “baller” and “dope” as the kids say.
Singapore Bill: When I took interview training at my current computer job, there was a part where the trainer talked about making sure to be aware that different people come from different cultures and backgrounds, and to not judge someone badly just for being different. As an example, she said that we shouldn’t downgrade someone, or assume that they wouldn’t fit in, just because they show up to the job interview wearing a suit and tie. (To be clear, there’s no “not” missing before “wearing” in the previous sentence.)
@WW
I’m a culturally diverse fellow. If the interview is happening in Bombay or Dubai, other dress may be acceptable. Though I will say that in Japan or Singapore, traditional cultural dress would likely not be well regarded at a job interview.
If a computer person shows up not wearing a suit, well, that’s just how they are. I would give an extra point for one that makes the effort, but it wouldn’t be the deciding factor. However, my evening out saw men of a similar cultural upbringing to me wearing suits but no ties. That just is not right. Unless they had been kidnapped earlier.
“The only acceptable place to wear a baseball cap is on the baseball field.”
It is? I mean, I agree that there are places where they are inappropriate, but there are many places where they are fine (to me). Almost any outdoor activity where one is out in the sun and would like some protection for example.
Singapore Bill: If you would give them an extra point for it, then presumably there is some circumstance in which they’re just on the edge, and it would be the deciding factor?
If this case, though, the trainer was worried that the suit would be a negative mark.
Back in graduate school at the U of Arizona circa 1970, I was working part-time at the university library. While I didn’t dress “student wannabe hippie” for the job (as I sometimes did for classes), neither did I gussy up beyong a dress shirt and trousers. Until one day on a whim I decided to put on a sports jacket over a turtleneck instead, and my supervisor suddenly realized I wasn’t wearing a tie (I had never done so in the previous two or three months I’d been working there), and informed that the legislature had ruled that all male state employees (my job counted) were required to wear ties. However, this being The West, bolo (string) ties counted. So I bought a bolo tie for a couple of dollars and thereafter wore it with said dress shirt and trousers, but never again showed up for work in anything even as semi-dressy as a sport coat.
(I’ve still got the bolo tie, and even though Minnesota is not The West I wear it on the rare occasions every other year or so –funerals, mostly — where a tie might be appropriate. I haven’t worn a “standard” tie in fifty years, and do not own one. And do not miss it.)
Given Singapore Bill’s stand on “ties for men at work– because they Look Professional and that’s more important than comfort or practicality” — I wonder what his stance is on high heels for women?
I agree with you Brian, but I admit that Singapore Bill has a point about men not bothering to take off hats in restaurants anymore. I don’t mind at fast food or counter service places, but at any sit-down place, even casual places like Applebee’s, everyone (men & women) should take off their ball caps. I suppose that a sports bar would be an exception to that, assuming that your hat is for a sports team (preferably one that is actually playing that night), since many go there in team attire like they would if they were going to the game.
The suit without a tie seems weird to me, but then, so does the trend of coat & dress shirt (with or without a tie) with jeans below. At least then the lack of a tie seems more acceptable, I guess. But then, I know I’m not one to criticize fashion, since my guiding principle is “If it’s not comfortable, forget it”. I only break that rule for very special occasions, rarely more than once a year, if that often. And yes, that goes for shoes, too. I got lucky and found a couple of pairs of shoes that are comfy and dressy, and I’ve had them for years.
At the risk of sounding sexist, or like a visitor from the 1950s, I think both men and women should remove their hats when sitting down in a restaurant; but for men in the company of women, it’s absolutely mandatory.
I was SO hoping to read that you’d put a tie (bolo or otherwise) over your turtleneck sweater ‘-)
@Brian in STL
I have a hat that keeps sun and rain off me. It is much more practical than a baseball cap (except for playing baseball, softball, etc.), providing protection all around my fat head. Like this one but without the side snaps https://www.tilley.com/ca_en/t3-cotton-duck-hat.html
@Winter Wallaby
A computer person that can clean up and interact with corporates is a valuable asset for those times you have to take them to a client’s office and make a pitch. That’s why a suit would get them an extra point. Otherwise, I wouldn’t much care in that role.
@Shrug
If a tie isn’t comfortable, you’re buying the wrong size of shirt and/or tying the tie too tightly. Also, I didn’t say men need to wear ties at work. I said ties needed to be worn with suits. Many work places don’t require suits and that’s fine by me. Heels look nice on ladies but are entirely impractical. A flat hoe is perfectly acceptable.
@Wendy
God, I hate bars when there’s a game on.
As for sports jacket, say in a tweed or corduroy or, if one is jaunty seersucker or linen, it is perfectly acceptable with a nice shirt (or turtleneck, for Shrug) and casual trousers. If it’s jeans, I’d say they should be clean jeans in good repair and the jacket should be tweed or corduroy, something rougher. More refined fabrics would be better served with a nice pair of slacks. No tie required.
@B.A.
If the woman is wearing something like a baseball cap, that should come off just like a man’s should. If she’s wearing one of them fancy lady hats, they’re allowed to keep them on, usually because they’re quite an involved production to put on and take off. Hats on in anyplace but a fast-food joint really doesn’t impress me.
@Andréa
A bolo tie says “I really can’t be bothered with this crap but I’m going to make a token effort”. It is a mark of at least some sort of civilization. It can look pretty sweet too.
Seriously, Singapore Bill, I don’t think fancy lady hats are much of an issue now that Elaine Stritch is dead.
A suit without a tie doesn’t bother me nearly as much as dress shoes without sox…
I was very amused to see that Wendy used “ball cap” instead of the full “baseball cap”. In Germany, the standard term for those hats is “Basecap“, pronounced and spelled almost exactly as in English. I have no idea when or why the Germans lost the “ball”.
Traditionally (into at least the 1950s) a woman did not remove her hat outside her home or work. No, really! If one walked into a home and there was a group of women there, the one(s) with no hat on, were the hostesses who lived there. I know this as being the kind of stick in the mud I am, I read and reread an etiquette book. (I presume it was a 1950s book as I read it in the 1960s,but it could have been later or earlier.)
I know such additional stupid minutia as – when walking the gentlemen walks on the side of the sidewalk towards the roadway as this way he will prevent any splatters from passing cars from dirtying the woman’s dress. (No, really, this was in the book.)
Speaking of etiquette – in today’s world when one writes a letter (yes, a letter) to a business it seems wrong to me to say Gentlemen, as employees,of course have a good chance of being women – or mixed and in some cases one knows that it is a mixed group. Dear gentlemen and ladies or Dear ladies and gentlemen is awkward and presumes a mix. To whom it may concern sounds wrong. What do people use as the salutation these days? I tried looking this up and all references seem to be about job applications and tell one to find out the specific person they contacting. In my case it arises when I write to the national office of my embroidery chapter (and I am doing so on behalf of my chapter) and I know that there is at least one man and a number of women. When I am writing as to a specific item I address to it the person, but sometimes, it is something going to the office in general.
@David Thompson
Shoes without socks don’t bother me so much. A man wearing a suit without a tie is improperly dressed. A man wearing shoes without socks is obviously a derelict.
Meryl, I see your minutiae and add the fact that in London, sidewalk etiquette is reversed: men traditionally walk on the inside, since splatter was considered less of a danger than having some miscreant jump out from a doorway or alley.
I had always heard that the gentleman walking on the street side predates the automobile. And though horse drawn carriages could also cause splashing, it was other sources of water to be concerned about. Gardyloo!
The joke is that a clerk in a store sold him a gimme cap with a clever line of BS; identifying him/her as his “haberdasher” is a bit of unconvincing swank. What upscale men’s clothier (the closest equivalent to a haberdashery these days) is going to stock gimme hats? It’s a bit like calling the kid who mows your lawn your “landscape architect”.
I think of Dwight Schrute on “The Office” (US version). Dwight is a sucker for dubious authorities, and often inflates their status and credibility. The instructor at his shopping center karate school, for example, is reverently referred to as “Sensei”.
In Germany, the traditional arrangement is independent of the direction in which the couple is walking: the man is always supposed to walk on the left. Apparently, German gentleman were less worried about splashes from vehicles and/or chamber pots, and more worried about poking their swords in their lady’s derrière.
Recently there have been adjustments for lessons in traffic safety: young children are taught that when walking with an adult, they should stay on the “safe child side”, meaning “away from the street”. This is especially important in small towns and villages with narrow streets, where the “sidewalks” are not always separated by an adequate curbstone.
re Basecap
I didn’t know about that one; one more for my list. I can’t help but feel they are doing it on purpose just to annoy me.
I guess it works both ways: yesterday I confused a coworker by declaring that our name server was “kaput” — he took it to mean the English understanding of “kaput” as in completely finished, whereas I had meant only that it was broken, so he panicked thinking our name server was completely unresponsive, whereas I meant it had several possibly severe problems. In my defense I honestly forget he can’t speak German sometimes because he can read it aloud almost flawlessly.
So, which is worse, making up your own vocabulary in a language that is not yours a la the Germans, or redefining existing words of a foreign language, a la English, eg: “blitz”, and to a lesser degree, “kaput”?
. . . or a tie without a suit. Bada boom!
@ Andréa – aha, you mean Terry “Python” Jones as the nude organist on the sketch Blackmail show… NSFW, I suppose, albeit safe enough for UK TV in October 1970: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3lOFt9XAAArago.jpg:small
Thanks for the chuckle . . .
“I have a hat that keeps sun and rain off me. It is much more practical than a baseball cap ”
So what? Why does that mean that no one else should use a different hat for that situation? Ball caps work pretty well for the purpose. They’re also easy to stick into a back pocket when you don’t need it. Not to mention that all of the ball caps I have were free. I’d have to buy a boonie hat like that.
Or that you were just identifying it — “kaput.ns.nowis.com”?
no, we go for a Lord of the Rings naming structure…
“. . . ll of the ball caps I have were free.” Which is why they are called – at least in Wisconsin they are called – gimme caps.
“Traditionally (into at least the 1950s) a woman did not remove her hat outside her home or work.”
So what’s the right answer to this test question from the 1960’s?
Wow, they’ve wrung what in the real world is two choices into an astonishing five!
Bolo ties are always appropriate; the question is whether you have the necessary presence to carry it off or whether it makes you look like an easterner wearing cowboy boots.
My answer to the test question: C. nearest the aisle, at least in my experience. My lady (first she was girlfriend, then wife of 40 years) was much more likely than I to get up during the feature and go powder her nose or some such euphemism. So I always gave her the aisle seat.
An interesting point arises from larK’s observation: Assuming there’s supposed to be a single correct answer, it seems like it can’t be C or E, since those are equivalent?
It depends on the exact configuration. If there’s a large center section and smaller ones to one or both sides of that, with aisles dividing, then the aisle seat in the “wings” would be closer to center.
Actually, on further reflection, C and E are distinct, the theater layout isn’t specified clearly enough to treat them as equivalent.
Brian in STL: Yep. (I should have refreshed first.)
For those of you who remember going to church in the 1950’s, have you seen what people wear in church these days?
Although the organists are not dressed like Terry Jones — yet.
From an etiquette standpoint, probably not the aisle seat as the person seated there is more prone to being jostled by people moving up and down the aisle.
“For those of you who remember going to church in the 1950’s, have you seen what people wear in church these days?”
I haven’t been in a church in a long time. Either a wedding or a baptism. I suspect that a lot a pastors are relatively happy that people, especially younger ones, show up at all regardless of attire.
I recall a Miss Manners discussion about hats and the removing of for the National Anthem. Her opinion was that if the woman is wearing an easily removed hat, like a ball cap, then she should also remove it. I have noted that at the hockey games the announcer has changed the former, “Please rise for the National Anthem, and gentlemen please remove your hats” to elide the “gentlemen” part.
Back when I was regularly interviewing people for tech jobs, it was a joke that the applicant would wear a suit and tie for the interview and then spend the rest of their career in jeans. Recently I have been interviewing occasionally, and I was told by a headhunter that I would scare them if I wore a suit and tie! “Business casual” was allowed though, which according to my sources means a suit jacket and no tie; but if I’m going to wear a jacket which is too hot for the season I would at least want to wear one of the ties I have somehow collected but never worn.
I remove my cap during the National Anthem, but hold it to my side. For some reason, holding over my heart like men normally do feels silly.
I never read Miss Manners, so I just make things up as I go along.
On the whole, Miss Manners was a pretty sensible source for etiquette advice. They used to run her column in the Post-Dispatch. She wasn’t stuck in 40s, She was an early proponent of “Ms.” for women, as an example.
Her writing comes back to me at various times. Discussion on a financial forum I read occasionally has threads about the appropriate cost of a wedding gift. Some will say to base that on the reception cost. Miss Manners said repeatedly that the gift is not an admission ticket or reimbursement for a meal.
I have read her books (I think more than one, altho it’s been a while) for the amusement value, also . . .
“So what’s the right answer to this test question from the 1960’s?”
I don’t know, but if the next question was about the boy’s choice, that’s easier… he should give the girl the seat she wants.
I was taught (Born in the mid ’80s, my parents in the late ’50s) that the rule for whether or not a woman removes her hat is strictly if it’s part of her outfit. The definition of “part of the outfit” is left up to the individual though. So, when I cut my hair short because of a handsy toddler, I wore a hat to church so that I could look presentable.
The big thing with suits being a black mark in tech interviews is that it ends up making it very hard to get into the tech industry, unless you already have some experience and know things like “don’t wear a suit to interviews”. So companies that are trying to have more even-handed hiring practices are trying to make sure that ‘cultural fit’ things like that don’t get too big.
One thing often recommended is to ask prior to an interview.
My personal answer sort of ties into jajizi’s graphic: my wife’s short, so she gets the seat without a tall person or a lady with a big hat in front of her (though when we were at a play last week we were in Row G while Row F was completely taken by the Brobdingnag Theatre Club, so there was no right answer)
I once had a girlfriend who refused to sit anywhere OTHER THAN an aisle seat. I never asked why, which brings us back to James’s answer: “Wherever she wants to sit.”
Bill dates 800-pound gorillas???
And going in the other direction, as late as the early 60s men wore suits to ballgames.
Winter Wallaby – Well in my younger days I would have said that the woman should sit on the side with the shorter person sitting in front of her. These days my answer is on husband’s right side. He doesn’t hear that well on his left and this way when he asks me what was said and he didn’t follow (I guess we really are old) he can hear me when I tell him as quietly as possible.
Mark in Boston – I am a relatively newcomer to going to church- started when husband and I were married and he did not want to go alone and no longer wanted to go with his dad and sister. (His mom stayed home and cooked.) I thought we dress as to go to the synagogue,me in dress or at least skirt and blouse and him in nice pants and jacket. No, he insisted we go much more casually -and this is for Christmas/Easter. For his nieces’ baptism, first communion, and confirmation it was all I could do to get him to wear nice pants instead of jeans.
He cannot understand why I still wear a dress or skirt and blouse to go to the synagogue. I go for Yom Kippur and the anniversary of my dad’s death. He says I should wear slacks and be comfortable. My dad never approved of same and made it a rule at the synagogue we belonged to (of course he served a term as president of same and was very involved on the board),so if I am going to honor his memory, I feel I should not wear slacks.
When I got my first job in accounting I happen to be talking to my maternal grandmother – who had worked in younger, unmarried days as a bookkeeper – that I had the job. (It was not my first job – I had worked in a store while in college – also had worked in dad’s office, but that was basically a “keep the kid busy for the summer” when I was in junior high.) She said to me “Now, you must buy a hat.” While I knew the concept of ladies wearing hats, it slipped my mind as to what she meant – ie. if you are working in an office you must wear a proper hat when you go to and from work – and said to her “No, I wear a scarf on my head when it rains or is cold.”
Comics I Don't Understand 
These are, I believe, called GIMME CAPS and are used to advertise one’s political views, sports team preference, etc., etc. So . . . a business cap would be used to advertise MAKING MONEY!! Or something like that.
“My haberdasher” !
Maybe its just the juxtaposition of a bizspeak sounding word with a word like haberdasher.
I just looked at the FAQ for the GoComics comment section. They have a rule against going off-topic.
Can anybody IMAGINE that sort of rule here?
As someone wrote somewhere, sometime: “Come for the comics, stay for the comments.” I think that sums it all up . . .
I think the joke is how what is considered appropriate attire is changing, largely driven by the youngsters.
They wear baseball caps all over, even in nice restaurants. The only acceptable place to wear a baseball cap is on the baseball field. Or, if turned backward, when you are sniping enemy soldiers.
Surprisingly, this fellow is wearing a necktie. I attended an event just a couple of days ago and there were a goodly number of men wearing suits without ties. Many of my younger friends (even well into their 30s) are vehement that a tie is not required with a suit. I disagree. The only time it is acceptable to appear in a suit without a tie is when you have been kidnapped and your hands were tied together with the tie and you have been able to escape by rubbing the tie on a jagged rock.
I am also distressed by the disturbing trend of men wearing brown shoes with a blue suit. Not oxblood, which is acceptable, but brown!
So, this young man thinks he looks “baller” and “dope” as the kids say.
Singapore Bill: When I took interview training at my current computer job, there was a part where the trainer talked about making sure to be aware that different people come from different cultures and backgrounds, and to not judge someone badly just for being different. As an example, she said that we shouldn’t downgrade someone, or assume that they wouldn’t fit in, just because they show up to the job interview wearing a suit and tie. (To be clear, there’s no “not” missing before “wearing” in the previous sentence.)
@WW
I’m a culturally diverse fellow. If the interview is happening in Bombay or Dubai, other dress may be acceptable. Though I will say that in Japan or Singapore, traditional cultural dress would likely not be well regarded at a job interview.
If a computer person shows up not wearing a suit, well, that’s just how they are. I would give an extra point for one that makes the effort, but it wouldn’t be the deciding factor. However, my evening out saw men of a similar cultural upbringing to me wearing suits but no ties. That just is not right. Unless they had been kidnapped earlier.
“The only acceptable place to wear a baseball cap is on the baseball field.”
It is? I mean, I agree that there are places where they are inappropriate, but there are many places where they are fine (to me). Almost any outdoor activity where one is out in the sun and would like some protection for example.
Singapore Bill: If you would give them an extra point for it, then presumably there is some circumstance in which they’re just on the edge, and it would be the deciding factor?
If this case, though, the trainer was worried that the suit would be a negative mark.
Back in graduate school at the U of Arizona circa 1970, I was working part-time at the university library. While I didn’t dress “student wannabe hippie” for the job (as I sometimes did for classes), neither did I gussy up beyong a dress shirt and trousers. Until one day on a whim I decided to put on a sports jacket over a turtleneck instead, and my supervisor suddenly realized I wasn’t wearing a tie (I had never done so in the previous two or three months I’d been working there), and informed that the legislature had ruled that all male state employees (my job counted) were required to wear ties. However, this being The West, bolo (string) ties counted. So I bought a bolo tie for a couple of dollars and thereafter wore it with said dress shirt and trousers, but never again showed up for work in anything even as semi-dressy as a sport coat.
(I’ve still got the bolo tie, and even though Minnesota is not The West I wear it on the rare occasions every other year or so –funerals, mostly — where a tie might be appropriate. I haven’t worn a “standard” tie in fifty years, and do not own one. And do not miss it.)
Given Singapore Bill’s stand on “ties for men at work– because they Look Professional and that’s more important than comfort or practicality” — I wonder what his stance is on high heels for women?
I agree with you Brian, but I admit that Singapore Bill has a point about men not bothering to take off hats in restaurants anymore. I don’t mind at fast food or counter service places, but at any sit-down place, even casual places like Applebee’s, everyone (men & women) should take off their ball caps. I suppose that a sports bar would be an exception to that, assuming that your hat is for a sports team (preferably one that is actually playing that night), since many go there in team attire like they would if they were going to the game.
The suit without a tie seems weird to me, but then, so does the trend of coat & dress shirt (with or without a tie) with jeans below. At least then the lack of a tie seems more acceptable, I guess. But then, I know I’m not one to criticize fashion, since my guiding principle is “If it’s not comfortable, forget it”. I only break that rule for very special occasions, rarely more than once a year, if that often. And yes, that goes for shoes, too. I got lucky and found a couple of pairs of shoes that are comfy and dressy, and I’ve had them for years.
At the risk of sounding sexist, or like a visitor from the 1950s, I think both men and women should remove their hats when sitting down in a restaurant; but for men in the company of women, it’s absolutely mandatory.
I was SO hoping to read that you’d put a tie (bolo or otherwise) over your turtleneck sweater ‘-)
@Brian in STL
I have a hat that keeps sun and rain off me. It is much more practical than a baseball cap (except for playing baseball, softball, etc.), providing protection all around my fat head. Like this one but without the side snaps https://www.tilley.com/ca_en/t3-cotton-duck-hat.html
@Winter Wallaby
A computer person that can clean up and interact with corporates is a valuable asset for those times you have to take them to a client’s office and make a pitch. That’s why a suit would get them an extra point. Otherwise, I wouldn’t much care in that role.
@Shrug
If a tie isn’t comfortable, you’re buying the wrong size of shirt and/or tying the tie too tightly. Also, I didn’t say men need to wear ties at work. I said ties needed to be worn with suits. Many work places don’t require suits and that’s fine by me. Heels look nice on ladies but are entirely impractical. A flat hoe is perfectly acceptable.
@Wendy
God, I hate bars when there’s a game on.
As for sports jacket, say in a tweed or corduroy or, if one is jaunty seersucker or linen, it is perfectly acceptable with a nice shirt (or turtleneck, for Shrug) and casual trousers. If it’s jeans, I’d say they should be clean jeans in good repair and the jacket should be tweed or corduroy, something rougher. More refined fabrics would be better served with a nice pair of slacks. No tie required.
@B.A.
If the woman is wearing something like a baseball cap, that should come off just like a man’s should. If she’s wearing one of them fancy lady hats, they’re allowed to keep them on, usually because they’re quite an involved production to put on and take off. Hats on in anyplace but a fast-food joint really doesn’t impress me.
@Andréa
A bolo tie says “I really can’t be bothered with this crap but I’m going to make a token effort”. It is a mark of at least some sort of civilization. It can look pretty sweet too.
Seriously, Singapore Bill, I don’t think fancy lady hats are much of an issue now that Elaine Stritch is dead.
A suit without a tie doesn’t bother me nearly as much as dress shoes without sox…
I was very amused to see that Wendy used “ball cap” instead of the full “baseball cap”. In Germany, the standard term for those hats is “Basecap“, pronounced and spelled almost exactly as in English. I have no idea when or why the Germans lost the “ball”.
Traditionally (into at least the 1950s) a woman did not remove her hat outside her home or work. No, really! If one walked into a home and there was a group of women there, the one(s) with no hat on, were the hostesses who lived there. I know this as being the kind of stick in the mud I am, I read and reread an etiquette book. (I presume it was a 1950s book as I read it in the 1960s,but it could have been later or earlier.)
I know such additional stupid minutia as – when walking the gentlemen walks on the side of the sidewalk towards the roadway as this way he will prevent any splatters from passing cars from dirtying the woman’s dress. (No, really, this was in the book.)
Speaking of etiquette – in today’s world when one writes a letter (yes, a letter) to a business it seems wrong to me to say Gentlemen, as employees,of course have a good chance of being women – or mixed and in some cases one knows that it is a mixed group. Dear gentlemen and ladies or Dear ladies and gentlemen is awkward and presumes a mix. To whom it may concern sounds wrong. What do people use as the salutation these days? I tried looking this up and all references seem to be about job applications and tell one to find out the specific person they contacting. In my case it arises when I write to the national office of my embroidery chapter (and I am doing so on behalf of my chapter) and I know that there is at least one man and a number of women. When I am writing as to a specific item I address to it the person, but sometimes, it is something going to the office in general.
@David Thompson
Shoes without socks don’t bother me so much. A man wearing a suit without a tie is improperly dressed. A man wearing shoes without socks is obviously a derelict.
Meryl, I see your minutiae and add the fact that in London, sidewalk etiquette is reversed: men traditionally walk on the inside, since splatter was considered less of a danger than having some miscreant jump out from a doorway or alley.
I had always heard that the gentleman walking on the street side predates the automobile. And though horse drawn carriages could also cause splashing, it was other sources of water to be concerned about. Gardyloo!
The joke is that a clerk in a store sold him a gimme cap with a clever line of BS; identifying him/her as his “haberdasher” is a bit of unconvincing swank. What upscale men’s clothier (the closest equivalent to a haberdashery these days) is going to stock gimme hats? It’s a bit like calling the kid who mows your lawn your “landscape architect”.
I think of Dwight Schrute on “The Office” (US version). Dwight is a sucker for dubious authorities, and often inflates their status and credibility. The instructor at his shopping center karate school, for example, is reverently referred to as “Sensei”.
In Germany, the traditional arrangement is independent of the direction in which the couple is walking: the man is always supposed to walk on the left. Apparently, German gentleman were less worried about splashes from vehicles and/or chamber pots, and more worried about poking their swords in their lady’s derrière.
Recently there have been adjustments for lessons in traffic safety: young children are taught that when walking with an adult, they should stay on the “safe child side”, meaning “away from the street”. This is especially important in small towns and villages with narrow streets, where the “sidewalks” are not always separated by an adequate curbstone.
re Basecap
I didn’t know about that one; one more for my list. I can’t help but feel they are doing it on purpose just to annoy me.
I guess it works both ways: yesterday I confused a coworker by declaring that our name server was “kaput” — he took it to mean the English understanding of “kaput” as in completely finished, whereas I had meant only that it was broken, so he panicked thinking our name server was completely unresponsive, whereas I meant it had several possibly severe problems. In my defense I honestly forget he can’t speak German sometimes because he can read it aloud almost flawlessly.
So, which is worse, making up your own vocabulary in a language that is not yours a la the Germans, or redefining existing words of a foreign language, a la English, eg: “blitz”, and to a lesser degree, “kaput”?
. . . or a tie without a suit. Bada boom!
@ Andréa – aha, you mean Terry “Python” Jones as the nude organist on the sketch Blackmail show… NSFW, I suppose, albeit safe enough for UK TV in October 1970: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3lOFt9XAAArago.jpg:small
Thanks for the chuckle . . .
“I have a hat that keeps sun and rain off me. It is much more practical than a baseball cap ”
So what? Why does that mean that no one else should use a different hat for that situation? Ball caps work pretty well for the purpose. They’re also easy to stick into a back pocket when you don’t need it. Not to mention that all of the ball caps I have were free. I’d have to buy a boonie hat like that.
Or that you were just identifying it — “kaput.ns.nowis.com”?
no, we go for a Lord of the Rings naming structure…
“. . . ll of the ball caps I have were free.” Which is why they are called – at least in Wisconsin they are called – gimme caps.
“Traditionally (into at least the 1950s) a woman did not remove her hat outside her home or work.”
So what’s the right answer to this test question from the 1960’s?
Wow, they’ve wrung what in the real world is two choices into an astonishing five!
Bolo ties are always appropriate; the question is whether you have the necessary presence to carry it off or whether it makes you look like an easterner wearing cowboy boots.
My answer to the test question: C. nearest the aisle, at least in my experience. My lady (first she was girlfriend, then wife of 40 years) was much more likely than I to get up during the feature and go powder her nose or some such euphemism. So I always gave her the aisle seat.
An interesting point arises from larK’s observation: Assuming there’s supposed to be a single correct answer, it seems like it can’t be C or E, since those are equivalent?
It depends on the exact configuration. If there’s a large center section and smaller ones to one or both sides of that, with aisles dividing, then the aisle seat in the “wings” would be closer to center.
Actually, on further reflection, C and E are distinct, the theater layout isn’t specified clearly enough to treat them as equivalent.
Brian in STL: Yep. (I should have refreshed first.)
For those of you who remember going to church in the 1950’s, have you seen what people wear in church these days?
Although the organists are not dressed like Terry Jones — yet.
From an etiquette standpoint, probably not the aisle seat as the person seated there is more prone to being jostled by people moving up and down the aisle.
“For those of you who remember going to church in the 1950’s, have you seen what people wear in church these days?”
I haven’t been in a church in a long time. Either a wedding or a baptism. I suspect that a lot a pastors are relatively happy that people, especially younger ones, show up at all regardless of attire.
I recall a Miss Manners discussion about hats and the removing of for the National Anthem. Her opinion was that if the woman is wearing an easily removed hat, like a ball cap, then she should also remove it. I have noted that at the hockey games the announcer has changed the former, “Please rise for the National Anthem, and gentlemen please remove your hats” to elide the “gentlemen” part.
Back when I was regularly interviewing people for tech jobs, it was a joke that the applicant would wear a suit and tie for the interview and then spend the rest of their career in jeans. Recently I have been interviewing occasionally, and I was told by a headhunter that I would scare them if I wore a suit and tie! “Business casual” was allowed though, which according to my sources means a suit jacket and no tie; but if I’m going to wear a jacket which is too hot for the season I would at least want to wear one of the ties I have somehow collected but never worn.
I remove my cap during the National Anthem, but hold it to my side. For some reason, holding over my heart like men normally do feels silly.
I never read Miss Manners, so I just make things up as I go along.
On the whole, Miss Manners was a pretty sensible source for etiquette advice. They used to run her column in the Post-Dispatch. She wasn’t stuck in 40s, She was an early proponent of “Ms.” for women, as an example.
Her writing comes back to me at various times. Discussion on a financial forum I read occasionally has threads about the appropriate cost of a wedding gift. Some will say to base that on the reception cost. Miss Manners said repeatedly that the gift is not an admission ticket or reimbursement for a meal.
I have read her books (I think more than one, altho it’s been a while) for the amusement value, also . . .
“So what’s the right answer to this test question from the 1960’s?”
I don’t know, but if the next question was about the boy’s choice, that’s easier… he should give the girl the seat she wants.
I was taught (Born in the mid ’80s, my parents in the late ’50s) that the rule for whether or not a woman removes her hat is strictly if it’s part of her outfit. The definition of “part of the outfit” is left up to the individual though. So, when I cut my hair short because of a handsy toddler, I wore a hat to church so that I could look presentable.
The big thing with suits being a black mark in tech interviews is that it ends up making it very hard to get into the tech industry, unless you already have some experience and know things like “don’t wear a suit to interviews”. So companies that are trying to have more even-handed hiring practices are trying to make sure that ‘cultural fit’ things like that don’t get too big.
One thing often recommended is to ask prior to an interview.
My personal answer sort of ties into jajizi’s graphic: my wife’s short, so she gets the seat without a tall person or a lady with a big hat in front of her (though when we were at a play last week we were in Row G while Row F was completely taken by the Brobdingnag Theatre Club, so there was no right answer)
I once had a girlfriend who refused to sit anywhere OTHER THAN an aisle seat. I never asked why, which brings us back to James’s answer: “Wherever she wants to sit.”
Bill dates 800-pound gorillas???
And going in the other direction, as late as the early 60s men wore suits to ballgames.
Winter Wallaby – Well in my younger days I would have said that the woman should sit on the side with the shorter person sitting in front of her. These days my answer is on husband’s right side. He doesn’t hear that well on his left and this way when he asks me what was said and he didn’t follow (I guess we really are old) he can hear me when I tell him as quietly as possible.
Mark in Boston – I am a relatively newcomer to going to church- started when husband and I were married and he did not want to go alone and no longer wanted to go with his dad and sister. (His mom stayed home and cooked.) I thought we dress as to go to the synagogue,me in dress or at least skirt and blouse and him in nice pants and jacket. No, he insisted we go much more casually -and this is for Christmas/Easter. For his nieces’ baptism, first communion, and confirmation it was all I could do to get him to wear nice pants instead of jeans.
He cannot understand why I still wear a dress or skirt and blouse to go to the synagogue. I go for Yom Kippur and the anniversary of my dad’s death. He says I should wear slacks and be comfortable. My dad never approved of same and made it a rule at the synagogue we belonged to (of course he served a term as president of same and was very involved on the board),so if I am going to honor his memory, I feel I should not wear slacks.
When I got my first job in accounting I happen to be talking to my maternal grandmother – who had worked in younger, unmarried days as a bookkeeper – that I had the job. (It was not my first job – I had worked in a store while in college – also had worked in dad’s office, but that was basically a “keep the kid busy for the summer” when I was in junior high.) She said to me “Now, you must buy a hat.” While I knew the concept of ladies wearing hats, it slipped my mind as to what she meant – ie. if you are working in an office you must wear a proper hat when you go to and from work – and said to her “No, I wear a scarf on my head when it rains or is cold.”